Comments on: Adding Arms? http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/ We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future - FDR Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:33:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: VladiHondo http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41246 VladiHondo Thu, 08 Nov 2007 13:45:18 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41246 <p>One of Mock's coaches last year said he had good stuff but it was all "right here" and made a fist belt high. He wasn't that hot over the summer, 65 IP, 80 H, 30 BBs and 54 K's.</p> <p>How does 18 innings in the AFL change that and make him a #3 starter in the bigs? Not trying to be coy, just curious if the Light has finally gone on.</p> One of Mock’s coaches last year said he had good stuff but it was all “right here” and made a fist belt high. He wasn’t that hot over the summer, 65 IP, 80 H, 30 BBs and 54 K’s.

How does 18 innings in the AFL change that and make him a #3 starter in the bigs? Not trying to be coy, just curious if the Light has finally gone on.

]]> By: Brian Oliver http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41247 Brian Oliver Thu, 08 Nov 2007 13:50:45 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41247 <p>VH - Not sure I buy Robothal's #3 projection. He seems like a 4 or 5 to me. I do wonder how long he has been injured</p> VH - Not sure I buy Robothal’s #3 projection. He seems like a 4 or 5 to me. I do wonder how long he has been injured

]]> By: Marcus http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41251 Marcus Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:29:43 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41251 <p>Gr8 write up as usual Anyone interested in more news about Mock should check out Svrugla(might have spelled it wrong) in the Post...He has a real good write up on him seems like a good guy.</p> Gr8 write up as usual
Anyone interested in more news about Mock should check out Svrugla(might have spelled it wrong) in the Post…He has a real good write up on him seems like a good guy.

]]> By: Brian Oliver http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41252 Brian Oliver Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:34:43 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41252 <p>Mock is a really good guy (and quite the talker as Barry commented)</p> Mock is a really good guy (and quite the talker as Barry commented)

]]> By: fernando http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41272 fernando Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:06:45 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41272 <p>For me Mock should be AAA next year.</p> <p>Our ML rotation is pretty set with:</p> <ol> <li>Free Agent/ Shawn Hill</li> <li>Hill/ John Patterson</li> <li>Matt Chico</li> <li>Jason Bergmann</li> <li>Tim Redding/ Patterson / John Lannan</li> </ol> <p>I don't think we need to rush Mock into the ML this year, let's remember he was the main component of the Livan deal.</p> For me Mock should be AAA next year.

Our ML rotation is pretty set with:

  1. Free Agent/ Shawn Hill
  2. Hill/ John Patterson
  3. Matt Chico
  4. Jason Bergmann
  5. Tim Redding/ Patterson / John Lannan

I don’t think we need to rush Mock into the ML this year, let’s remember he was the main component of the Livan deal.

]]> By: estuartj http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41283 estuartj Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:18:02 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41283 <p>I don't think anyone is guaranteed a spot in the rotation, especially considering the injury history of Patterson, Hill and Bergmann, but if healthy all 3 have spots. I think 11 current starting pitchers (FA Signees to come?) will get invited to camp with a shot. They are (in alphabetical order); Balester Bergmann Chico Detwiler Gonzalez Hanrahan Hill Lannan Mock Patterson Redding This is a far cry from 37...and realistically some of these guys are huge longshots to make the team, especially Detwiler. Some guys like Hanrahan are probably headed for the bullpen. However, to be competitive you need to have 7 guys ready to take the ball on any day. Some of those might be in the bullpen (ala Bacsik in '07) and others might be in AAA (like Hanrahan & Lannan in '07).</p> I don’t think anyone is guaranteed a spot in the rotation, especially considering the injury history of Patterson, Hill and Bergmann, but if healthy all 3 have spots. I think 11 current starting pitchers (FA Signees to come?) will get invited to camp with a shot. They are (in alphabetical order);
Balester
Bergmann
Chico
Detwiler
Gonzalez
Hanrahan
Hill
Lannan
Mock
Patterson
Redding
This is a far cry from 37…and realistically some of these guys are huge longshots to make the team, especially Detwiler. Some guys like Hanrahan are probably headed for the bullpen.
However, to be competitive you need to have 7 guys ready to take the ball on any day. Some of those might be in the bullpen (ala Bacsik in ‘07) and others might be in AAA (like Hanrahan & Lannan in ‘07).

]]> By: Ric http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41286 Ric Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:34:55 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41286 <p>VH - the summer was injury recovery time. I think penciling Mock in at the ML level is overly aggressive, but hopefully the AFL results are more typical of his potential. He's pitching in short blocks though, maybe on a pitch count?</p> VH - the summer was injury recovery time. I think penciling Mock in at the ML level is overly aggressive, but hopefully the AFL results are more typical of his potential. He’s pitching in short blocks though, maybe on a pitch count?

]]> By: pahou http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41287 pahou Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:35:09 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41287 <p>It works for me, you just cant have to many arms. It would be nice if Cliff Lee could find himself back in this organization, he was a real class act, as so many ballplayers are when they come through the minor leagues. That trade for Bartolo Colon decimated the organization for a long time.</p> It works for me, you just cant have to many arms. It would be nice if Cliff Lee could find himself back in this organization, he was a real class act, as so many ballplayers are when they come through the minor leagues. That trade for Bartolo Colon decimated the organization for a long time.

]]> By: Louis J. http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41371 Louis J. Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:23:36 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41371 <p>If you are going to trade Chad Cordero, how about the Giants who need a closer and have some pitchers to trade (plus Cordero would go back home to California). Chad Cordero for Noah Lowry(LH-SP) or Chad Cordero for young prospect Jonathan Sanchez(LHP) and speedster Eugenio Velez(2B/SS)(S/R).</p> <p>If you are going to trade Chad Cordero #2 option, how about the Marlins who need a closer. Chad Cordero, Justin Maxwell & John Lannan for Donrelle Willis and Gaby Sanchez(1B)(R/R).</p> <p>If you are going to trade Chad Cordero #3 option, how about Tampa who need a closer- big time! Chad Cordero and Felipe Lopez for either Wade Davis (RH-SP) (age 21) or Jeremy Hellickson (RH-SP) (age 20), potential power hitter Sergio Pedroza (OF)(L/R)(age 23) & speedster Fernando Perez (CF)(S/R).</p> If you are going to trade Chad Cordero, how about the Giants who need a closer and have some pitchers to trade (plus Cordero would go back home to California). Chad Cordero for Noah Lowry(LH-SP) or Chad Cordero for young prospect Jonathan Sanchez(LHP) and speedster Eugenio Velez(2B/SS)(S/R).

If you are going to trade Chad Cordero #2 option, how about the Marlins who need a closer. Chad Cordero, Justin Maxwell & John Lannan for Donrelle Willis and Gaby Sanchez(1B)(R/R).

If you are going to trade Chad Cordero #3 option, how about Tampa who need a closer- big time! Chad Cordero and Felipe Lopez for either Wade Davis (RH-SP) (age 21) or Jeremy Hellickson (RH-SP) (age 20), potential power hitter Sergio Pedroza (OF)(L/R)(age 23) & speedster Fernando Perez (CF)(S/R).

]]> By: Brian Oliver http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41372 Brian Oliver Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:32:29 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41372 <p>All of those deals would be solid for the Nationals but I'm not sure any of those teams would be looking for an increasingly expensive closer given where they are on the competitiveness scale. Teams like the Mets are oft-mentioned since they are more near-term focused and less focused on the financial aspect.</p> All of those deals would be solid for the Nationals but I’m not sure any of those teams would be looking for an increasingly expensive closer given where they are on the competitiveness scale. Teams like the Mets are oft-mentioned since they are more near-term focused and less focused on the financial aspect.

]]> By: Louis J. http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41382 Louis J. Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:08:51 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41382 <p>Brian I agree that $$$ are vital with respect to trading with Tampa BUT they are desperate for a closer!!!!</p> <p>I respectfully disagree that expenses are a factor for the Giants and Marlins.</p> <p>Free Agents Bonds, Vizuel, Feliz, Klesko and the retired Mike Matheny cost them $37.5m in 2007. They may sign Vizuel or Feliz which still leaves them with plenty of $$$ for Cordero and Free Agents AND they are also desperate for a closer to compliment the rotation they have.</p> <p>The Marlins do have $$$ problems but they paid Willis $6.45M in 2007 and his salary will increase to $10+M by 2009 afterwhich he will declare Free Agency. Also, Cabrera was paid $7.05M for 2007 and his salary will increase to $14+M by 2009 afterwhich he will declare Free Agency. Cordero cost the Nats $4M in 2007 and is arbitration eligible for 2008 and 2009. His salary will never approach the $10+M figure that Willis will command. Therefore, expenses are factor but Cordero would be less of a $$$ problem plus they get a young premuim closer to grow up with their young pitchers.</p> Brian
I agree that $$$ are vital with respect to trading with Tampa BUT they are desperate for a closer!!!!

I respectfully disagree that expenses are a factor for the Giants and Marlins.

Free Agents Bonds, Vizuel, Feliz, Klesko and the retired Mike Matheny cost them $37.5m in 2007. They may sign Vizuel or Feliz which still leaves them with plenty of $$$ for Cordero and Free Agents AND they are also desperate for a closer to compliment the rotation they have.

The Marlins do have $$$ problems but they paid Willis $6.45M in 2007 and his salary will increase to $10+M by 2009 afterwhich he will declare Free Agency. Also, Cabrera was paid $7.05M for 2007 and his salary will increase to $14+M by 2009 afterwhich he will declare Free Agency. Cordero cost the Nats $4M in 2007 and is arbitration eligible for 2008 and 2009. His salary will never approach the $10+M figure that Willis will command. Therefore, expenses are factor but Cordero would be less of a $$$ problem plus they get a young premuim closer to grow up with their young pitchers.

]]> By: Louis J. http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41386 Louis J. Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:25:20 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41386 <p>Brian</p> <p>While I'm playing GM and since this is Hot Stove time, I have another trade. Lance Berkman (1B)(S/R) age 30 of Astros for Collin Balester, Zech Zinicola and Josh Whitesell. Berkman's contract would carry him thru 2010 for $14.5M per year w/ a team option of $15M for 2011.</p> <p>The Astros are going nowhere in the next few years and have very few quality prospects moving up their system thanks to bad drafts in 2005-2007. They don't need to spend $58.5 for a player that will not improve their future. They need prospects!</p> <p>Berkman is a switch-hitting power hitter who would help the middle of the Nats lineup and he is only one year older than Nick Johnson and a lot healthy playing in 94% of the Astros games. Also, he would be signed thru 2011 while Johnson will be a free agent after 2009. Nick Johnson would be available for a trade once he is healthy. The Yankees, Dodgers & Giants come mind for Johnson.</p> Brian

While I’m playing GM and since this is Hot Stove time, I have another trade. Lance Berkman (1B)(S/R) age 30 of Astros for Collin Balester, Zech Zinicola and Josh Whitesell. Berkman’s contract would carry him thru 2010 for $14.5M per year w/ a team option of $15M for 2011.

The Astros are going nowhere in the next few years and have very few quality prospects moving up their system thanks to bad drafts in 2005-2007. They don’t need to spend $58.5 for a player that will not improve their future. They need prospects!

Berkman is a switch-hitting power hitter who would help the middle of the Nats lineup and he is only one year older than Nick Johnson and a lot healthy playing in 94% of the Astros games. Also, he would be signed thru 2011 while Johnson will be a free agent after 2009. Nick Johnson would be available for a trade once he is healthy. The Yankees, Dodgers & Giants come mind for Johnson.

]]> By: Brian Oliver http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41387 Brian Oliver Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:25:26 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41387 <p>Louis - This is just my opinion, but if your closer is not named Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman, I have a hard time spending a premium for a closer. Especially if you are a team that is not a serious playoff contender. There is little reason to spend $6M or more (my guess of Chad Cordero's minimum) on an unnecessary piece when there are cheaper options out there. Closers typically have a short shelf life and by the time they become expensive, the ROI is just not worth it (once again in my opinion).</p> Louis - This is just my opinion, but if your closer is not named Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman, I have a hard time spending a premium for a closer. Especially if you are a team that is not a serious playoff contender. There is little reason to spend $6M or more (my guess of Chad Cordero’s minimum) on an unnecessary piece when there are cheaper options out there. Closers typically have a short shelf life and by the time they become expensive, the ROI is just not worth it (once again in my opinion).

]]> By: Louis J. http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41390 Louis J. Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:44:29 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41390 <p>Brian</p> <p>As always, I respect your opinion BUT Rivera and Hoffman didn't have their usual outstanding performances and may not have much left. In other words, their future is in the their rear-view mirror and giving them a long-term contract is a gamble. Cordero would cost less than them and we can debate which of the 3 will have a better future.</p> <p>Also, remember the premium depends on a team's situation and how desperate they are to fix a problem. The Royals paid a premium for Gil Meche (5yrs/$55M) because they were desperate for a starter. And million of people- including me- paid a premium for "cabbage patch" dolls! I think the Giants are desperate to get back into playoff race with the Dodgers and they need a long-term experienced closer</p> Brian

As always, I respect your opinion BUT Rivera and Hoffman didn’t have their usual outstanding performances and may not have much left. In other words, their future is in the their rear-view mirror and giving them a long-term contract is a gamble. Cordero would cost less than them and we can debate which of the 3 will have a better future.

Also, remember the premium depends on a team’s situation and how desperate they are to fix a problem. The Royals paid a premium for Gil Meche (5yrs/$55M) because they were desperate for a starter. And million of people- including me- paid a premium for “cabbage patch” dolls! I think the Giants are desperate to get back into playoff race with the Dodgers and they need a long-term experienced closer

]]> By: Neil UK http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41403 Neil UK Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:39:45 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41403 <p>With the usual apologies about being in the UK and therefore nowhere near the baseball pulse:</p> <p>Is Patterson on his way back then? And perhaps more pertinently, will Washington sign him again?</p> <p>I'd like the Nats to sign Livan again over Glavine, he's an innings eater who can teach the youngsters how to win and hey, go more than 5 2/3. If Lerner/Kastan/Bowden were feeling flush, how about gambling on a Jason Jennings/Jeff weaver type on a 1 year (with club option for another) $4-$5m deal?</p> <p>My starting rotation would be:</p> <p>Hernandez Hill Bergmann Patterson/Chico Chico/Lannan</p> With the usual apologies about being in the UK and therefore nowhere near the baseball pulse:

Is Patterson on his way back then? And perhaps more pertinently, will Washington sign him again?

I’d like the Nats to sign Livan again over Glavine, he’s an innings eater who can teach the youngsters how to win and hey, go more than 5 2/3. If Lerner/Kastan/Bowden were feeling flush, how about gambling on a Jason Jennings/Jeff weaver type on a 1 year (with club option for another) $4-$5m deal?

My starting rotation would be:

Hernandez
Hill
Bergmann
Patterson/Chico
Chico/Lannan

]]> By: Nate http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41406 Nate Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:48:06 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41406 <p>Neil,</p> <p>Patterson is on his way back (again) and almost certainly will be offered arbitration by the Nats, keeping him with the club. The rub with Livan will be the number of years on the contract. He'd probably be nice to have around next season, maybe even in '09, but any longer than that and he's probably just taking up (lots of) space. Jennings or Weaver at 1 year/$5M would be a great signing, but there's no reason to think that's a reasonable estimate in dollars or years, given the thin market for starting pitching.</p> Neil,

Patterson is on his way back (again) and almost certainly will be offered arbitration by the Nats, keeping him with the club. The rub with Livan will be the number of years on the contract. He’d probably be nice to have around next season, maybe even in ‘09, but any longer than that and he’s probably just taking up (lots of) space. Jennings or Weaver at 1 year/$5M would be a great signing, but there’s no reason to think that’s a reasonable estimate in dollars or years, given the thin market for starting pitching.

]]> By: Tom http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41421 Tom Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:27:33 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41421 <p>What sets a closer in a special category? A 95+ mph fastball? Pinpoint control? A great change-up? None of these. Closing is 20% talent and 80% mental make up. Chad fits that mold. He can get into jam after jam, but he still has the moxy and ice water in his veins to pitch the 9th inning day after day and have no memory of what happened yesterday. Guys like Chad are rare. That's why fans go nuts over him but GM's want him. The Nats will miss him if they trade him and get good in other areas two years from now. Jim B is wise to demand first class + talent in any trade for Chad.</p> What sets a closer in a special category? A 95+ mph fastball? Pinpoint control? A great change-up? None of these. Closing is 20% talent and 80% mental make up. Chad fits that mold. He can get into jam after jam, but he still has the moxy and ice water in his veins to pitch the 9th inning day after day and have no memory of what happened yesterday. Guys like Chad are rare. That’s why fans go nuts over him but GM’s want him.
The Nats will miss him if they trade him and get good in other areas two years from now.
Jim B is wise to demand first class + talent in any trade for Chad.

]]> By: Louis J. http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41492 Louis J. Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:19:00 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41492 <p>Knock, Knock!! Opportunity is knocking! The Astros made a deal for a centerfield and 3B prospect and their GM said he isn't done talking. They are looking for a second baseman, starting pitcher (Dontrelle Willis). I like to have Lance Berkman (have to deal with his no trade clause w/$$$$)! Can the Nats get a deal done for prospects? Throw in Lopez!!!!</p> <p>If the Marlins are entertaining offers for Willis, the Astros are willing to part with their star CF prospect- Josh Anderson. Bowden should concentrate his efforts with the Marlins and forget the "can't decide" Tampa Rays and Rocco Baldelli. Justin Maxwell is a better player than Josh Anderson.</p> <p>I hope "Trader Jim" is hard at work....</p> Knock, Knock!! Opportunity is knocking! The Astros made a deal for a centerfield and 3B prospect and their GM said he isn’t done talking. They are looking for a second baseman, starting pitcher (Dontrelle Willis). I like to have Lance Berkman (have to deal with his no trade clause w/$$$$)! Can the Nats get a deal done for prospects? Throw in Lopez!!!!

If the Marlins are entertaining offers for Willis, the Astros are willing to part with their star CF prospect- Josh Anderson. Bowden should concentrate his efforts with the Marlins and forget the “can’t decide” Tampa Rays and Rocco Baldelli. Justin Maxwell is a better player than Josh Anderson.

I hope “Trader Jim” is hard at work….

]]> By: Louis J. http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41498 Louis J. Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:55:17 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-41498 <p>Update ####?</p> <p>In any trade for Dontrelle Willis or Miguel Cabrera , Marlins would like to obtain a top-flight, affordable young pitcher, a catcher and a CF. The Nats have those players. (paraphrase of article by Joe Frisaro of MLB.com).</p> <p>The Nats have these players. How many of these prospects would it take?</p> Update ####?

In any trade for Dontrelle Willis or Miguel Cabrera , Marlins would like to obtain a top-flight, affordable young pitcher, a catcher and a CF. The Nats have those players. (paraphrase of article by Joe Frisaro of MLB.com).

The Nats have these players. How many of these prospects would it take?

]]> By: HeavyGod http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-43712 HeavyGod Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:47:09 +0000 http://farmauthority.dcsportsnet.com/2007/11/08/adding-arms/#comment-43712 <p>Really good and really interesting post. I expect (and other readers maybe :)) new useful posts from you! Good luck and successes in blogging!</p> Really good and really interesting post. I expect (and other readers maybe :)) new useful posts from you!
Good luck and successes in blogging!

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