Chico Harlan has the Crow update over at Nationals Journal
[Hendricks] told Jim Bowden before the draft that Crow wanted two things: A major league contract and a “premium” signing bonus, well above slot. (Recommended for a ninth overall pick: $2,150,000.) Knowing that, the Nats took Crow. Crow has not changed his demands.
“If they weren’t willing to (meet those demands), they shouldn’t have drafted him,” Hendricks said.
Asked about the Nats stance in negotiations, Hendricks said that the Nats are “sticking to this sanctified slotting position…They’ve made their position clear throughout negotiations about their adherence to the slotting system.”
Other key points…
- The two sides haven’t spoken since Tuesday.
- Chances for a deal aren’t gone, but it’ll require a serious comeback.
“The point is,” Hendricks said, “I would doubt they sign Aaron Crow — because I guarantee we won’t change.”
I still believe this is all posturing, but there is sliver of doubt beginning to enter my subconscious.
Crow and his folks need to be reasonable and willing to negotiate. As do the Nationals.
MrMadison | 14-Aug-08 at 7:42 pm | Permalink
my knee-jerk reaction is:
f*ck him, let him walk.
take the extra pick next year.
we shoulda drafted Smoak.
Brian Oliver | 14-Aug-08 at 7:45 pm | Permalink
MrM - I understand to some degree folks’ reactions but I just don’t get that upset about it because this whole clusterf*** that is the draft process leads to a handful of these type negotiations each year. The Nationals are the lucky ones this year.
I am withholding judgment until 12:01AM on August 16th.
I just am trying to block out all of this posturing, but it’s getting harder and harder.
John | 14-Aug-08 at 7:54 pm | Permalink
To me it’s done. I hope Smoak goes back in too and we get him next year.
pahou | 14-Aug-08 at 8:02 pm | Permalink
It would almost be funny if he throws his arm out in the independent leagues
Andrew F | 14-Aug-08 at 8:11 pm | Permalink
Based on how much over slot they went for Hicks and Nieto, Crow’s number would fall somewhere between $3.7 - $4.3 million. They won’t offer that and he won’t take that?
I also can’t see how the Nats can say with a straight face they won’t go over slot when they’ve done it with only every other player they drafted in the first five rounds.
Andrew S. | 14-Aug-08 at 8:18 pm | Permalink
pahou, how can you root against a guy you don’t know?
John | 14-Aug-08 at 8:23 pm | Permalink
I have no problem with Crow. He’s doing what’s right for him. I wish him the best. He’s an awesome pitcher and I’m sorry to lose him. I hope the Nats sign other picks or IFAs with the money saved and get a good player with 9b.
Estuartj | 14-Aug-08 at 8:24 pm | Permalink
I think Crows agents are liars. There is no way Bowden is telling them we wont go over slot, PSo i think this is just cover for the real sticking point, the major league contract.
Scott | 14-Aug-08 at 8:40 pm | Permalink
If Crow doesn’t sign for $4M, his agents are doing what is best for the agency, not the client. Someone in his family needs to see past the agent BS and do what is right for the Aaron before it is too late. He is likely getting snowed by the agent right now.
PANatsFan | 14-Aug-08 at 8:40 pm | Permalink
There must be some sort of reality disconnect here. The Nats don’t give Major League deals, but they rewarded Detwiler with a call up last year because he was a model citizen. No one is getting the kind of money he is asking for, and it’s clear Strasburg goes #1 next year. I’m befuddled.
Andrew S. | 14-Aug-08 at 8:45 pm | Permalink
Scott, players ALWAYS have the final say in signing. After all, it is THEIR life. Agents just tell them whether the deal is fair out not. After that it’s in the player’s hands.
Scott | 14-Aug-08 at 8:51 pm | Permalink
I could live without Crow if they use the bonus money on Ramirez and another pick.
Andrew S. | 14-Aug-08 at 8:59 pm | Permalink
No other player in this draft will make up for missing Crow.
EdDC | 14-Aug-08 at 9:00 pm | Permalink
I also don’t have problems with Crow. He and his agent know that the Nats need Crow. And he will probably sign with the Nats for that reason.
Why shouldn’t Crow get Lo Duca money or Dmitri money? He is much more valuable to the Nats than their other $5 million players. His worth? Judging from Posey, about $6 million. That should do it.
Crow would cost the Nats maybe $2 million to $3.5 million above slot. If they do not sign him, I wonder if, in the year 2011, the Nats would be willing to trade 9A in 2009 plus $3.5 million for Crow? My guess is yes, but it will be too late.
If Crow is out of the Nats’ league, for sure they should stay away from Strasburg, who would be way out of the Nats’ league. Maybe just go after the 10th best player, who would sign for slot, and tell the fans that he is the real #1.
As a Nats’ fan , I am for building a team of the future. But it seems the going cheer is “Stay within budget, Stay within budget.” Somehow that lacks something for me. I hope he wins 200 games for the Marlins.
Fake Jim Bowden | 14-Aug-08 at 9:04 pm | Permalink
“I hope the Nats sign other picks or IFAs with the money saved and get a good player with 9b.”
Yeah, that’s exactly what we’re going to do.
::carries wheelbarrow of cash to Uncle Teddy’s vault::
::skims change off top::
PANatsFan | 14-Aug-08 at 9:07 pm | Permalink
EdDc, the Marlins won’t even pay their Major Leaguers that are arbitration eligible. Do you see them paying 8-10 million for a draft pick?
Scott | 14-Aug-08 at 9:22 pm | Permalink
EdDC
Just so I’m clear - If you were Crow’s agent and the final offer was $4 M you would advise your client to walk away and hope that next year he has another strong year, does not get injured, hopefully will be drafted higher and hopefully will be drafted by a team that will not hold him to the slot money. Because his leverage to walk a second time will be extremely weak.
Gavin B | 14-Aug-08 at 9:28 pm | Permalink
“Asked about the Nats stance in negotiations, Hendricks said that the Nats are “sticking to this sanctified slotting position…”
As everyone else has done, I call shenanigans.
Steven | 14-Aug-08 at 9:35 pm | Permalink
“Why shouldn’t Crow get Lo Duca money or Dmitri money?”
Keep in mind, it’s a one-time bonus, and then we get to pay him the minimum for his first 3 years in the bigs, plus whatever time he has in the minors. Let’s assume he comes up to stay sometime mid-to-late 09, which is fast, but let’s just say.
That means he gets $5m now, and then 400k or so a year for 2009-2012. Only in 2013 when he’s (at the earliest) arb eligible does his salary jump significantly over the minimum.
So really he’s asking for a little less than Belliard money.
Gavin B | 14-Aug-08 at 9:35 pm | Permalink
EdDC wrote:
“But it seems the going cheer is “Stay within budget, Stay within budget.””
Um, I hate to argue in comments and all, but that statement is so ignorant, it made me laugh.
Dude, EVERY pick in rounds 2-5 was payed ABOVE slot. Please add constructive comments, not pre-thought biased rhetoric.
Tofu Dog | 14-Aug-08 at 9:55 pm | Permalink
Gavin, “was payed” is so ignorant it made my high school English teach cry.
Brian Oliver | 14-Aug-08 at 9:59 pm | Permalink
Children, am I going to have to put someone in timeout?
;)
John | 14-Aug-08 at 10:03 pm | Permalink
I should have said Crow is doing what he thinks is best for him. I can see his side. He’s an awesome pitcher. He could go as high #2 next year. I would take a good deal from the Nats, but that’s me.
Strasburg is in a different league from everyone including Crow. If the Nats don’t sign him at any cost, I’m done with them, and I’m not a fan that makes statements like that. You pay Strasburg whatever he wants. He’s a phenom.
Dick | 14-Aug-08 at 10:06 pm | Permalink
Brian: The natives are getting restless! Just under 26 hours more to go.
Fake Ted Lerner | 14-Aug-08 at 10:06 pm | Permalink
“You pay Strasburg whatever he wants.”
Sure, maybe YOU do. I didn’t get to be as rich as Oprah Winfrey by spending one more nickel than I need to and now I have two picks to bankroll.
::reaches for pepto::
Steveo | 14-Aug-08 at 10:07 pm | Permalink
To me ‘”premium” signing bonus’ is the most important part of the entry. We don’t know what “premium” is, we hear reports but don’t know. The report out of B-more is that Matusz is going to sign an ML deal for around $3.1 million, thats roughly $500K over slot. Now Posey signed a crazy deal for $7.5 million and an ML deal. Both were taken a couple picks before Crow and both were higher rated than Crow was. I’m sure the Nats want to keep in line Matusz but I can’t see Crow signing for only around $3 million.
I’m sure the ML contract is a bit of a sticking point, I’m not a huge fan of it especially if you look at how bad of a move bringing up Detwiler was last year. Now you have two young pitchers taking up 40 man spots that in all likely hood won’t be up till at least 2010. I’m not sure how many guys the Nats will have to protect in the Rule 5 draft next year but those two spots could be crucial. Regardless though at this point I think bringing in someone of Crow’s potential is worth the 40 man spot. Make room by cutting a Pete Orr or even Pena next year.
John | 14-Aug-08 at 10:08 pm | Permalink
Andrew S. I tend to agree with you, but it’s possible they could come out ahead if they sign say Ramirez and a good IFA plus a good player with #9b
There are going to be some very good players at that area next year. It’s possible that 9b+Ramirez+IFA > Crow.
I’m not saying I’d be doing it this way. I’d rather have Crow, but it’s possible they could still do very well, depending on how they handle this.
Andrew S. | 14-Aug-08 at 10:15 pm | Permalink
John, then we agree. They could make up for their losses of not signing Crow by giving some of the money originally alloted for him to Marcus Jones, JP Ramirez (probably seeking 1 mil), and a legitimate IFA.
Steveo, Nats don’t have anyone worthwhile to protect from the Rule-5 draft.
Andrew S. | 14-Aug-08 at 10:16 pm | Permalink
Oh, I forgot. They would have to make those offers to Ramirez and Jones at the lastttttt second if they want to give Crow a good chance.
Gavin B | 14-Aug-08 at 10:18 pm | Permalink
Tofu,
Say “hey” to your English teacher as you ask her to proof read this comment for you. Payed vs. paid was my bad, I admit. You don’t need a teacher for spelling, though. Do you?
On a baseball related note, I’d love for the real story to come out about how these negotiations go. Does anyone know if such a book exists?
Fake Ted Lerner | 14-Aug-08 at 10:21 pm | Permalink
“They could make up for their losses of not signing Crow by giving some of the money originally alloted for him to Marcus Jones, JP Ramirez (probably seeking 1 mil), and a legitimate IFA.”
Yeah. Or I could buy Marla another dozen chinchilla coats.
Tom | 14-Aug-08 at 10:21 pm | Permalink
Why should Crow get LoDuca money or Dmitri money?
Simple the system is broken. See previous posts.
Again, don’t listen to what anyone says until 12:01 Sat morning
John | 14-Aug-08 at 10:26 pm | Permalink
Tom: I hope you and Brian are right and that he gets signed. I’ve definitely seen stranger things. If it does happen, it will be very interesting to see what the deal is and who “caved”. My money is on the Hendricks Bros. getting the best of this if it happens.
Andrew S. | 14-Aug-08 at 10:27 pm | Permalink
Tom, because he is good and you don’t let young talent like this walk away.
Dick | 14-Aug-08 at 10:28 pm | Permalink
Tom: You’ve figured it out!
We certainly aren’t privy to the negotiations but it is hard to fathom how a 20 year old could walk away from 2, 3 or more million dollars. As Don Sutton said tonight, the money is in the big leagues, not the signing bonus. Hard to see how you could ever make up for the year lost if you don’t sign.
We’ll see how the soap opera plays out tomorrow night.
Steveo | 14-Aug-08 at 10:39 pm | Permalink
Andrew S.- You might be right but I’m pretty sure at least Luke Montz and maybe Shairon Martis need to be protected next year. There wouldn’t be much else of significance for sure. My overall point was its not always the best idea to keep handing out 40 man spots to guys that you can’t use on field at the ML level. Giving a spot to Maxwell last year made sense b/c while he wasn’t going to be on the Opening day roster with the additions of Dukes and Milledge, he could have been brought up to replace them when they got hurt. Having someone like Detwiler (or Crow for next season if they sign him) on the 40 man roster, hurts b/c when Hill goes down or Chico is ineffective, you can’t bring him up to replace them.
I’m not saying its unworkable, but it will make it harder to make trades, sign free agents, protect our players like Montz and be active in the Rule 5 Draft. Which can be a valuable talent resource to a team like the Nats. Another factor to consider is if we do end up with the worst record (and I believe we will) and draft Stasburg (which I hope we will) that will be ANOTHER ML contract given to a player that we can’t use. Now in that senario I would give Stasburg the contract in a heart beat and I would sign Crow to one as well. My point is that we have painted ourselves into a corner and unless Detwiler turns it around or Crow hits the ground running next year, we’d start the 2010 season with basically a 37 man roster.
Mark L | 14-Aug-08 at 10:40 pm | Permalink
Steveo — You said it best, I couldn’t agree more.
If any of you want to read about agents and how it works, read Jerry Crasnick’s book. You’ll need to shower after reading it, but there is lots of insight.
Very few of these agents truly care about what’s best for these kids. And they are kids.
Other Marc with a C | 14-Aug-08 at 10:42 pm | Permalink
My issue is that if they were told it would take a Major League deal to get it done, and that is the sticking point, then I blame JimBlow for making the pick.
BUT if they really are set on a +4M bonus, then you have to let him walk.
Andrew F | 14-Aug-08 at 10:45 pm | Permalink
The Nats win in any deal they make with Crow, aside from no deal. Crow can’t improve his situation enough by walking to make it worth it.
Henry | 14-Aug-08 at 10:53 pm | Permalink
Fake Ted_____I agree with you, if Crow doesn’t sign with the Nats use the bonus money for Ramirez and another player. Especially after the performance Ramirez had in San Jose Calif. at the 2008 Pony Palomino World Series where he was the MVP Batting Champion.
Andrew | 14-Aug-08 at 10:54 pm | Permalink
I think the Nats need Crow. He is a great talent, and a top of the rotation with Strasburg and Crow would be legendary.
Mark | 14-Aug-08 at 11:32 pm | Permalink
I think a large part of this equation is Matusz.
When the Nats say they won’t pay above slot, I have a feeling they don’t mean that literally. I think they mean they will not pay above what the pitcher taken before Crow (Matusz), which (reserving judgement) is within their right to do. Not saying I agree or it is right, but I have a feeling that is part of it, i.e. Crow has been asking for the moon, and Bowden doesn’t want to give him $5 mil (or whatever) only to find out the pitcher taken a couple spots before Crow (and the first pitcher taken in the draft) just signed for $3 mil.
Steveo | 15-Aug-08 at 12:03 am | Permalink
I agree I think Crow is stuck between a rock and a hard place if Matusz signs for a ML deal and just over 3 million. He can’t expect to get a ML deal and $4 million +. Esp. when Matusz had a better year and was higher rated than Crow to say nothing of the fact that he’s a lefty. And front of the rotation lefty starters are at a higher premium then righties.
In my opinion, since Crow is serious about playing professional ball and college or his teammates aren’t a factor, leaves me with this question: how can he pass up the oppurtunity to be paid 7 figures to do it and instead play for low 5 figures in Indy ball? I would give Crow two options ML contract and $3 million or non ML contract and $4 million, but not both. And I’d make a deadline that you have to agree to one by 8 pm tomorrow and if not I would take that money and give it to a few other unsigned picks. No it wouldn’t fully compare to Crow and we’d have to buck up twice next year but it at least wouldn’t be a total loss. My hope is we work something out ML contract or not, I think it puts us in a tough spot but a future of the likes of Detwiler, Zimmermann, Crow, Balester, Strasburg, Lannan, Bergmann, not to mention younger arms of Smoker, Williems, McGeary and Martis for our rotation and trade bait, is worth the risk of an ML deal.
Andrew S. | 15-Aug-08 at 12:18 am | Permalink
Listen Nationals, if you wasted this pick on purpose you are in fact a terrible organization down to the core. I assume you didn’t, so pay up or stop preaching your plan. You knew what the guy wanted going into this so don’t act surprised. If you want to stick to slot you should have taken someone like Anthony Hewitt or Aaron Hicks. Put up or shut up.
I’m not saying give him $10 million either…just don’t make a stink about $4 or $5 million and expect fans to feel sympathy for you.
John | 15-Aug-08 at 5:49 am | Permalink
Brian: I checked and unless they’ve changed the rule or I’m misunderstanding, the Nats will get the tenth pick no matter what.
Last year the Braves got #70 for failing to sign #69 and the Red Sox got #85 for failing to sign #84. The Braves pick should have pushed the Red Sox to 86 under the other theory.
This is obviously a big difference. If Alvarez, Alonso, Crow, Smoak, and Scheppers all re-enter then it’s going to either push a top five player to #10 or make one or more them available to the Nats.
SlowPitch63 | 15-Aug-08 at 6:21 am | Permalink
I object slightly to what I’m reading. I’d like to see Crow signed, but I also want to see Ramirez and the rest of the top 20 plus #32 signed regardless of whether Crow signs. I’m not buying into some over arching budgetary constraints. This is the plan. Build from the bottom up. Build the scouting capability - done that. Draft good players - done that. Sign the good players we drafted - incomplete. If we have to offer Ramirez second round money - do it. If we have to offer Silverstein low 1st round money - do it. If we have to offer Coleman 2nd round money - do it. If we are going to improve in this meritocracy called MLB we have to do significantly better than anyone else in player acquisition because right now we are the worst team in MLB. We should take all those actions whether or not Crow signs, but, yea, we better sign Crow also. I don’t care if it is above Matusz. I don’t care if it is Posey-like. That is how the Plan must be executed. Now if there really is no plan we can claim budget problems and point at “selfish” draftees and turn our current incompetence into an art form.
Perhaps the Lerners watched the old Maverick tv show where Old Pappy Maverick twisted the Abraham Lincoln quote to:
“You can fool some of the people all the time,
And you can fool all the people some of the time,
And those are pretty good odds.”
The plan got off to a very good start last year. I expect (hope) to see it continue this year, unless, of course, Pappy Maverick was right. Next week we can talk about the international scene, but right now the only game in town, and the game we must win is signing draft choices.
Rant over.
Let’s play two!
J. Cole | 15-Aug-08 at 8:06 am | Permalink
This f’ing idiot Bowden keeps talking about how if they get the compensatory pick next year, it will be the first time any team has ever had two Top 10 draft picks in the same year. News to Bowden, Kasten: Just because you can draft ‘em doesn’t mean you can sign ‘em - LOL!
Andrew S. | 15-Aug-08 at 10:56 am | Permalink
Yeah, I’d waaaay rather just get this Top 10 pick signed and then have only one to worry about next year.